Never take for granted the rights we enjoy in the U.S. (and other free societies), as imperfect as our nation might seem at times. It's on all of us to defend each other's freedoms, and work together to make things better for all of our fellow citizens.

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 07/01/2020 at 11:30 • Filed to: None

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Land of the Free, because of the Brave...

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 11:42

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For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 11:47

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Tony Blair would have invaded by now

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/01/2020 at 11:47

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Mendocino County’s on board with that?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/01/2020 at 11:49

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Seems like Puerto Rico or D.C. have first dibs.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > For Sweden 07/01/2020 at 11:50

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“Anybody who follows Tony Blair on Twitter is a cop...”

-ForSweden

For Sweden > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 07/01/2020 at 11:51

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true

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > For Sweden 07/01/2020 at 11:53

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Think we’ll see some international sanctions against them? Most nations are scared to do anything to piss off China.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > For Sweden 07/01/2020 at 11:53

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This must be causing a lot of hand-wringing in #10 Downing Street. Face it, the colony is still “more British” in outlook than it is aligned with Beijing... The natives think they are Hong Kong first and foremost, and the place is thick with UK ex-pats.

This is likely to get very very ugly.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 11:54

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Yeah, I don’t know it’s been a thing for a long time. Those areas are so different from the rest of the attached states it would make sense, other than they would be one of the poorest states in the Union without help from the economic hubs from there larger populated areas.

For Sweden > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 07/01/2020 at 11:56

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Luckily Boris is honoring passports.

For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 11:57

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No.  No one wants to be sanctioned by the NBA.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/01/2020 at 11:58

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It never feels good to feel unrepresented, which I’m sure many here do.

20 million people per senator (and clearly no “red” one for the foreseeable future).

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > For Sweden 07/01/2020 at 11:58

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I’d rather be sanctioned by the NBA than the NRA.

“Yep”

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > For Sweden 07/01/2020 at 12:00

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My GF and I have friends on the Kowloon side, working for HSBC, who’d hoped to ride it out until retirement. Fortunately, they had the presence of mind to hold onto the house near us in London... They are one BA flight away from “home” if it comes to that.

Still sucks.  They have a lot invested in HK, on many levels.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:02

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The big Orange Guy is running campaign ads already this AM showing the former Veep giving handies to Xi, so I think they are telegraphing that US_Chinese relations are about to go really south.

So, yeah, sanctions in some form from US and UK.

Future next gen S2000 owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:09

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Should. Won’t. Too much money and deep pockets.

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:10

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nermal > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:13

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On one hand, freedom is important.

On the other hand, they have a Blue Toilet Water Cannon. I think it’s ok to acknowledge that what they are doing is wrong, but at the same t hat thing has to be extremely fun to use on crowds of proteste rs. 

Also, obligatory 2nd Amendment reminder - It’s a big reason why this type of thing doesn’t happen in the US. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 07/01/2020 at 12:15

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Terribly sad day for such a beautiful, vibrant city.

The Social Credit System is soon to follow, I’m sure.

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:16

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I’ll believe it when the EB-5 program ends for crooked “investors” from that region who are getting out before the axe falls.

Jared was hawking that scheme not long ago, so I won’t hold my breath.  China probably holds Trump Org debt like the Russians.

fintail > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/01/2020 at 12:18

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Yeah, that movement gets some attention in WA, but realistic economics behind it don’t exist - those doing the whining are subsidized in more than one way.

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:19

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Limeyland should have bargained for a longer lease.

And because so many western corporations are profiting from the great kleptocracy, nothing real will be done.

wafflesnfalafel > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:23

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right - we need to sell them more Buicks!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > nermal 07/01/2020 at 12:24

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The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > fintail 07/01/2020 at 12:24

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That’s Deuts che Bank. They aren’t Russian .

But, you knew that.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > wafflesnfalafel 07/01/2020 at 12:24

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Man, do they love the LWB...

fintail > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 07/01/2020 at 12:25

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And the Russians launder money through DB, but you knew that.

Just Jeepin' > nermal 07/01/2020 at 12:26

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Yeah, agree to disagree on that one. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 07/01/2020 at 12:30

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I’m afraid you’re right.

It was a foregone conclusion after the handover, sadly.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > fintail 07/01/2020 at 12:30

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Your logic on this one has always been exceedingly tenuous. Coincidence, Correlation and Causation are entirely different things.

Until something to back-up your tin-foil hat theories arises , DB is just another big bank on a list of big banks.

Svend > For Sweden 07/01/2020 at 12:31

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We'll see if Boris honours his promise to the 3 million with British passports, etc... after China made loud threats over a week ago to the U.K. government. 

fintail > nermal 07/01/2020 at 12:32

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I dunno, plenty of cases of abuse directed towards protesters by our beloved brave warrior heroes, not much done about it.

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:34

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An old friend of mine, a German national, grew up in HK as her dad was some kind of highly paid middle manager for a logistics company.   They got out pretty fast after the handover - didn’t want to risk it even then.  I am kind of shocked it took this long, and that the clampdown hasn’t been faster.

facw > nermal 07/01/2020 at 12:34

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The second amendment people only seem interested in protecting the second amendment. They seem perfectly happy to let most other government abuses go unanswered. Often they are the one backing government’s heavy hand.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 07/01/2020 at 12:41

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My brother lived there for some time (I visited years ago), and now lives in Shanghai with his Chinese-born wife and kids. They have actually been stateside for months, because of the virus, and have little visibility on getting back any time soon. They’re actually in the process of buying a house here and terminating their lease there (and trying to find someone who will pack up and ship all of their stuff). Crazy times. I assume they’ll go back in a year or so , but who knows?

ranwhenparked > fintail 07/01/2020 at 12:41

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They tried to do that. Coming off the victory in the Falklands, Margaret Thatcher was convinced she could strong-arm China into extending the lease for another 50-100 years but the Chinese were adamant that a handover in 1997 was the only option they would consider, and that there was no flexibility in that.

Her next option was trying to hand back just the New Territories, since that was the only part leased, and hold on to Hong Kong Island and the southern tip of Kowloon, but a “fortress Hong Kong” was ruled out as unviable, since so much of the territory’s infrastructure (water, sewer, electric, food supply, prisons, airport, etc) is in the New Territories. And the Chinese were clear that they wanted the land ceded in perpetuity back, too, since they regarded the treaties signed by the Qing Empire as illegitimate . The only real option left was to try and get the best deal possible for Hong Kong within the PRC, which the British convinced themselves they did. At the time, it was felt the Chinese had a vested interest in upholding their end of the deal, because proving their commitment  to the One Country, Two Systems model was how they were going to one day convince Taiwan into joining them.

fintail > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 07/01/2020 at 12:41

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Yep, just a coincidence.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-fine-russia-money-laundering/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-bank-faces-action-over-20bn-russian-money-laundering-scheme#:~:text=Deutsche%20Bank%20was%20embroiled%20in,into%20the%20western%20financial%20system.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2020/01/02/deutsche-bank-russian-money-laundering-and-trump/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/business/trump-deutsche-bank.html

https://forensicnews.net/2020/01/21/russian-government-bank-deposited-500-million-into-deutsche-bank-subsidiary-as-it-lent-to-trump/

I am sure someone of your estee med knowledge and credentials when it comes to financial crimes can put me and my “tin foil hat” theories in the right. Stick to moaning about TDS, something you actually know about.

nermal > facw 07/01/2020 at 12:45

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2A people are just like nuke people. Almost none of them want to actually use it, just convince other people that they are capable of using it. The scale is different but the concept the same. 

DipodomysDeserti > nermal 07/01/2020 at 12:47

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Not sure if you’ve noticed, but cops have been killing lots of unarmed people in the US, despite the 2nd Amendment.

Are you proposing that people start shooting cops?

nermal > Just Jeepin' 07/01/2020 at 12:48

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It’s like they’re Godzilla, but with blue toilet water. So much fun! 

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 12:50

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I don’t envy that. If things keep deteriorating, being in Shanghai now might eventually be like being there in 1948 - might be time to pack up and GTFO while you can without a visit to a gulag along the way. Or just fake deference to the CCP.  Can’t be easy on his wife.

fintail > ranwhenparked 07/01/2020 at 12:53

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If I was in Taiwan, I might be a little anxious right now.

Kind of scary that anyone thought PRC leadership was earnest in agreeing to that deal, given their history.

ranwhenparked > fintail 07/01/2020 at 13:06

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Yeah, if there was any questions before, it’s very obvious now that they have no interest in doing things the peaceful way.

Honestly, the British really had no choice, unless they were willing to have a military confrontation and go to war over it, which would have been a bit harder than fighting Argentina or Saddam's Iraq, to say the least, and would assuredly have been condemned by the UN and EU.

fintail > ranwhenparked 07/01/2020 at 13:12

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If there’s one government I don’t trust, it’s that one - makes the shitshow here look palatable. Too bad the world as a whole still treats it with kid gloves.

Yeah, I can’t hold all that against the British at that time, it was too late - their time to do something about it was probably by 1960 at the latest.

ranwhenparked > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 13:15

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Nope, we can't do anything. All developed countries are too reliant on China, both for supply of essential manufactured goods, and as a market for their own large companies, while most developing countries have quietly become quite reliant on Chinese foreign aid. Basically, at least 3/4 of the UN membership is dependent on staying on China's good side, one way or another.

ranwhenparked > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 07/01/2020 at 13:19

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Protesters have been wa ving the colonial flag and singing God Save the Queen, they have been pretty transparent about where their sympathies lie.

ranwhenparked > fintail 07/01/2020 at 13:24

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China has the unique position of being one of the world's foremost economic and military powers and a permanent Security Council member, who's also a downtrodden victim of European, American, and Japanese imperialism. They are deft at playing that hand when it suits them.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 07/01/2020 at 13:28

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They have a good life there (he works for a charitable NGO) , but yeah, all this is simmering just below the surface.

nermal > DipodomysDeserti 07/01/2020 at 13:42

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I don’t advocate for shooting anybody, from either direction .

I do think that others are less likely to be violent against somebody they believe is armed.

I also think that if the HK proteste rs (and population in general) were armed, the government would be less likely to blast them with blue toilet water cannons, for fun or otherwise.

WaPo (FAKE NEWS!) shows ~1k fatal shoo tings by cops last year, 55 of them were unarmed. Most of the shootings were justified, a small handful not. I think it’s a catch-22, as the goal should be zero, anything more than zero is too many, but zero will never be reachable. 

RallyWrench > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 13:47

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BigBlock440 > DipodomysDeserti 07/01/2020 at 13:51

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Are you proposing that people start shooting cops?

Start?  You’re a few years late to that party.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > RallyWrench 07/01/2020 at 13:51

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Yup, but that’s the system we’ve got, and the one we’re stuck with for the foreseeable future (along with the electoral college) . No way the small states are going to give up their power to give more power to the biggest states.

BigBlock440 > RallyWrench 07/01/2020 at 13:53

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That’s literally the reason the senate is structured that way.  The house of representatives is the response to that.

DipodomysDeserti > nermal 07/01/2020 at 14:05

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What’s the point of the second amendment?

There’s been plenty videos posted of cops shooting legally armed people in the US . Philando Castille comes to mind. Breanna Taylor was killed after plain clothed cops broke into her house and her CCW carrying boyfriend tried to defend them.

People like you want to turn the US into China.

DipodomysDeserti > BigBlock440 07/01/2020 at 14:10

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I’m a teacher. I’m much more likely to get shot a work than a cop, and I’m not allowed to carry of wear body armor.

I’m also not a pussy, though.

fintail > ranwhenparked 07/01/2020 at 14:25

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After what they got away with in their great leap (not to mention the endless social, environmental, and intellectual property crimes since) , hard to believe anyone would let them play that card .

IMO what it comes down to is western corporations profit, and nobody wants to touch that gravy train.

ranwhenparked > fintail 07/01/2020 at 14:34

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They get away with it. Victimhood isn’t a good look when you’re in the dominant position, but if you can use it, you use it.

Related, I’m of Italian descent, and I’ve caught some of my friends and family pulling the “but, but, the WASPs didn’t consider us “real white people” until after WWII, we’re victims too, give us some unspecified thing” Sorry, you could always pass for Anglo if your skin was light enough and nobody asked your last name, and we’ve been mainstream white for 75 years with governors, senators, Supreme Court justices, billionaires, infectious disease specialists, etc, and no longer face any discrimination whatsoever* , so I told them to shut the hell up, your not a victim anymore, get over it. You don’t get to be play victim when you’re no longer disadvantaged. There are people still facing real problems in this country. China is like that, yeah, you got screwed in the past, well, actually, the Great Qing Empire and the Republic both got screwed in the past, not so much the People’s Republic, but you are easily the #2, by some measures, #1, power in the world now, get over it, you won already.

*maybe some places in the Deep South, but just don’t go there.

fintail > ranwhenparked 07/01/2020 at 14:43

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And for that victim stuff , it takes two to tango - someone has to let it happen. The west is to blame for much of the problem we have with the PRC , again, in my opinion, letting things slide for the promise of profits.

The PRC is certainly the victim of nobody - if one goes back far enough, almost anyone can say they’ve been victimized. The PRC is over 70 years old now and has amassed endless riches and power , nobody owes it anything.

No comment on the south :)

BigBlock440 > DipodomysDeserti 07/01/2020 at 14:44

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Should probably lay off the sauce, or at least not start so early. Or try google before typing a load of bullshit.

Here, let me help.

Yearly average for ALL people killed at your workplace: 35

Yearly average for police: 51 (lowest since at least the 70's)

In case you need help understanding what that means, it means your wrong.  There’s also 3.3 million teachers, and 800k police officers in the country, which means those numbers are even farther apart per capita.  Another thing it means is that people have been shooting at police for decades, and they used to shoot at them MORE OFTEN than they are now, or that police tactics are more effective at keeping themselves safe, or both.

RallyWrench > BigBlock440 07/01/2020 at 14:53

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Indeed. And it worked, on paper, when the entire United States was east of the Mississippi. Hard to call it representative now. 

DipodomysDeserti > BigBlock440 07/01/2020 at 15:02

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The average is 51 cops shot per year? Jesus christ, they shoot over 1k per year. The cops just in my city kill more people than that every year.

BigBlock440 > DipodomysDeserti 07/01/2020 at 16:34

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That’s also wrong. Seriously, google.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/cities

Scottsdale: From 2013-2018 - 8 people TOTAL over 5 years. an average of 1.6/year < 51/year.

Phoenix : 2013-2018 - 111 people, or 22.2/year, which again, is less than 51.

BigBlock440 > RallyWrench 07/01/2020 at 16:43

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So you feel California and California’s interests should have an oversized influence on the rest of the country?  Why do you think it doesn’t work now, and what do you propose would work better?

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > DipodomysDeserti 07/01/2020 at 16:45

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I don’t know, I think he’s saying the cops are going “now imagine how many more of you fools we could’ve killed if we didn’t let you have your guns!”.

Personally I think that’s a pretty shitty argument.

DipodomysDeserti > BigBlock440 07/01/2020 at 16:45

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Phoenix PD kill an average of 22 people a year? Jesus christ that’s a lot.

How many Phoenix police officers get killed a year? Their union would  go ballistic if 22 cops were killed every year.

There’s a lot more of us than them an d we have constitutional carry. Guess they’re lucky our populace isn’t as blood thirsty as them. 

fintail > nermal 07/01/2020 at 16:50

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Justified by investigations performed by fellow frat members, right?

American crime and incarceration rates destroy the “armed and polite society” fantasy .

nermal > DipodomysDeserti 07/01/2020 at 17:09

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Your reading comprehension concerns me. How do you equate my arguments in favor of the 2A with turning the US into China?

( Except for the appeal of u sing water canons for sporting purposes .)

The two instances you reference got national attention and a large number people are really mad about them happening - because they are both incredibly rare, and people SHOULD be mad about them. The exception is not the rule.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/01/2020 at 18:38

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Agreed entirely. Would also add that is up to all of us to ensure we have good faith government that is functioning to move society forward - not government that is designed to rot from within and give people a reason to distrust it.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that what is going on in Hong Kong may be impacted by the perceived weaknesses of Western alliances in current times? The US government is fixated on boogeymen,many of its own creation. It has distanced itself from other Western partners whose coalition previously portrayed a joint sense of importance for democracy. Our government pays lip service to Hong Kong and uses this as an example to push 2nd Amendment importance - but beyond that what exactly are they doing to help Hong Kong? And do we have any allies seriously beside us to pressure the Chinese?

Like you said, it’s on all of us to defend each others’ freedoms. That sentiment should resonate beyond our own borders (and should/can be done without ending up in useless wars with the right mix of partners and diplomacy). 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 07/01/2020 at 19:51

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I think what’s happening in HK was going to happen, regardless, but the rest of the  world is in a much weaker position to push back against it, and the pandemic and racial strife are giving them lots of “cover”, as attentions are focused elsewhere. 

RallyWrench > BigBlock440 07/01/2020 at 20:47

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No, but we contain well over 10% of the country’s population, so a massive chunk of Americans have a fraction the representation of voters from, say, Idaho . S hould a voter from California, Florida, Texas, or any other very populous state have vastly less power in matters of national importance as one from South Dakota or Kentucky? I believe the problem is mostly in the Senate. And maybe it’s only structural.   I don’t know how it would work, but i f states were allotted their number of senators by population, perhaps it would be more equitable. I’m pretty thoroughly dismayed at historic Congressional gridlock that’s basically created by entrenched old white people clinging to power and pandering to their respective bases, the continued use of procedural nuclear options and party lines to force legislation , and national elections determined by states with less people than several of our country’s cities .

So yeah, let’s have a minimum of two senators, and perhaps a maximum of 4. Say no more than 1 per 10 million people, or just call it 3 for states with more than 10 million . And term limit them . Hell, maybe term limits alone are  a solution? Anyway, w e’d then have 3 Senators for something like 38 million people , as things currently stand and will likely stay . Texas soon would as well, since so many people are moving there. S till California voters would have nowhere near the influence of our friends in Idaho . Maybe that 3rd senator c ould represent the center and eastern reaches of the state, which are pretty conservative , because we’re not the monolith we’re often made out to be . And maybe it’d give a toehold to viable 3rd parties, because two party rule clearly doesn’t work and doesn’t speak for America’s multitudes . And the electoral college needs to die, I see no reason why the popular vote is una cceptable . To make you happy, that would give California less power than it has now in presidential elections . And m aybe the slave owning white guys who came up with this whole system didn’t know everything that the future would bring, or built their implicit biases into it . I certainly don’t expect anything to change, but thinking about it doesn’t hurt.

Variance > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/03/2020 at 14:25

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The UK really should have never given Hong Kong back to China. “50 years of independence” my ass.

I really hope that the stronger ties our current administration has been forming with Taiwan helps protect them from from the PRC. They’re probably the next target after the domination of HK.